Rick Perry, governor of Texas, has broken the seal on the secession movement. In the past, the rhetoric was confined to small groups without broad support. Now that the sacred seal has been broken, talk and action will intensify. While many politicians may cringe at the suggestion that The United States may not stay together, the idea is not only logical, it makes sense for everyone.
The United States has a population of over three hundred million people, and of course not all of them have the same philosophy of government. It would be easy to lay the blame for the movement at the feet of the Democrats, but it would also be wrong. The Republican party has a tough time communicating what free market capitalism really means. The left around the world has painted a picture of free markets as being pro business. When you understand Adam Smith (the father of free market capitalism) you understand that it is in reality just short of anti-business.
The recent bailouts and business-government partnerships are starting to expose the truth to more people. Socialist and Statist governments are inclined to be pro-business. If the United States were a free market nation, a bailout would be impossible. We the people would decide which businesses succeed or fail, based on whether or not we decide to purchase their goods or services, and the price we are willing to pay.
What is the root of the secessionist movement?
The driving force at the grass roots level is of course money. Many Americans are rightly disturbed by the transfer of their wealth, and the wealth of their children, to companies that made risky investments, or were poorly managed. This is new territory for the government. The transfer started under George W. Bush with his bank bailout and auto makers bailouts, and the Obama administration has really poured on the spending with additional bailouts and stimulus packages. Citizens of more fiscally conservative states are finding that there money is being redirected from their pockets, and sent to other states.
In years past politicians from both parties have used the guilt factor to increase spending for the "needy". This tempers the backlash from the populace as they realize they are to sacrifice a new boat, or nicer home, for the greater good of society. Today, citizens are being asked to sacrifice their children's education, vacations, and even the home they are in, so that money can be transferred from their wallets to multi-billion dollar corporations.
When we add more government controls and regulations on everything from cigarettes, to fast food and guns, we begin to see the problem. Government is now coming at everyone at some level, over some issue. This piling on is causing those fringe secessionist movements to became mainstream very quickly.
If Texas were to secede, and move back to the real center (the constitution) where free-market capitalism and individual liberty were paramount, we could avoid real trouble in the not so distant future. Those who don't like the direction of a larger more intrusive government would have a place to go. Those in Texas who believe government should make more decisions in people lives would be free to leave.
There will never be a nation on earth that all the citizens believe is perfect. But in the United States the dividing line has became clear, and it cannot be fixed. In a recent poll, over half of Americans now believe that socialism is a better than free market capitalism. The recent tea parties, and strength of secessionist rhetoric shows that there are significant numbers of Americans who disagree.
A non-violent, logical separation of Texas (or other states) from The United States at this point may save anguish and even lives a few years from now. With two years of U4prez under my belt, I think I have my finger on the pulse of America better than many of the pundits and politicians in this country, and I say with 100% confidence, the chasm between us has grown too large to be reconciled.
Governor Perry will be painted by many on the left as an extremist. I would ask that you reconsider his position and his statements. Would it not be better for all concerned to simply part ways amicably?
To those who are passionate on both sides of the issue, is there any hope for compromise? How many minds have you changed? How do you reconcile the man who longs for individual liberty, and free markets, with the man who desires a centrally planned government, and equality of wealth? Where is the middle ground?
What does the future hold?
It doesn't take a crystal ball to see that our nation is headed towards contentious days. Glenn Beck, Governor Perry and other voices starting to ring out must be heard. These are not loners holed up in cabins in the mountains. These are serious man, with serious disagreements with the direction of the nation. They each have millions of supporters. We have now crossed the Rubicon and must begin to seriously address the desires of the secessionists, and the desires of the millions of Americans who see more government as the answer to our problems. If we do not address desires logically, reasonably and calmly, we will be addressing demands with fists.
We have come so far, we must at all costs avoid the plunge into violence and despair. There is no reason that capable men and women cannot come together and agree to disagree and go our separate ways, as friends.
Neither of the new nations would escape some bruising and hurt feelings, but both could emerge with the kind of nation they desire. The notion of separation is now out there among us. We would be better to learn from history and address it with reason and logic, and store the empty rhetoric, arguments and violence in the history books.
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Perry is just playing to angery hard right folks like Rob. Texas and much of the south is not going to leave the union for pete sake. Over 75% of Texans want to stay in the Union.
If Perry wants to secede after 100 days, I can't wait to see what he wants to do 2 years from now, or if Obama wins a second term.
I am NOT a Rick Perry supporter, as I feel he has done many things that are against what Texans have asked of him. (Trans-Texas corridor & toll roads, just to name two.) However, this whole topic of Perry saying that Texas might secede in the future has been blown WAY out of proportion. Someone in the Tea Party audience yelled out "Secede!" and Gov. Perry replied that yes, Texas has the right to secede if it is what the pople want. End of story. That said, I personally believe that all states have the right to secede if that is what their respective citizens wish to do. Not only that, but I also feel that it is a states responsibility to do so when the federal government begins to encroach upon the rights of the people. Our past and current government are becoming power hungry and greed driven to the point that I feel it is fast becoming a dangerous situation for Americans. I wish that we would start putting plans in action in order to leave DC and its ever increasing taxes in the dust! I have no doubts that since the states have been a whole for so long that there is a huge feeling of loyalty amongst one another and they would support one another whenever needed. It is now time for us to part ways with the parasite that we call DC! Just my view on the situation.
More importantly, what becomes of their constitutional rights?
I still haven't received an answer from the pro-secessionists regarding the very important question - What becomes of the American citizens living in the state that secedes?
I am NOT a Rick Perry supporter, as I feel he has done many things that are against what Texans have asked of him. (Trans-Texas corridor & toll roads, just to name two.) However, this whole topic of Perry saying that Texas might secede in the future has been blown WAY out of proportion. Someone in the Tea Party audience yelled out "Secede!" and Gov. Perry replied that yes, Texas has the right to secede if it is what the pople want. End of story. That said, I personally believe that all states have the right to secede if that is what their respective citizens wish to do. Not only that, but I also feel that it is a states responsibility to do so when the federal government begins to encroach upon the rights of the people. Our past and current government are becoming power hungry and greed driven to the point that I feel it is fast becoming a dangerous situation for Americans. I wish that we would start putting plans in action in order to leave DC and its ever increasing taxes in the dust! I have no doubts that since the states have been a whole for so long that there is a huge feeling of loyalty amongst one another and they would support one another whenever needed. It is now time for us to part ways with the parasite that we call DC! Just my view on the situation.
I don`t know anything about the guy.
Speaking of New Jersey, I would love to see Cory Booker become active in a higher level of politics. He is currently the mayor of Newark and, in my opinion, a very intelligent and ambitious person. Were he to gain more experience in politics, perhaps as a governor or a senator, and if he is successful, I'd like to see him possibly make a presidential bid someday. He seems like a very promising political guy.
New Jersey won't secede. It's too addicted to federal funds.
The Civil War wasn`t only about slavery Imagine.
Wiz, a coalition of States tried to secede once before. Look how that turned out. But on the other hand, if Texas wanted to secede, I'd be very against another civil war. In Lincoln's day, the civil war was an avenue to end slavery. Today, if Texas secedes, we will just lose the ignorant Rick Perry and anyone that decides to follow him. That wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
I have a question. If a state secedes from the union, what is to become of all the Americans living in that state?
Secession would be an interesting experiment. But considering a state of that size with one of the largest Plutonium manufacturing and storage facilitys instantly becoming an enemy of the United States concerns me. I doubt the United States would allow for such a rogue state to exist on their borders. And I don't see any entity supporting Texas in a future war. So I question the sincerity of this gesture. Or the insantity of it. As all politics is, it is just a token gesture. Unless a coalition of states was willing to go along with it.
Rick Perry was all about secession untill the swine flu hit. Now I don't think he's so eager to be by himself along the Mexican border.
and you know it must be true cause a dress wearing homo is calling you a pussy.... lol
Posting anonymously is basically saying "I'm a pussy and I know my post is pure BS."
who gives a crap if it is leagal or not. You liberal pukes with your holier than thou attitudes
don't have the balls to stop us. Who are you going to send down here to stop us the Mayor of San Francisco?? No, all you can do is kill unborn children and and totally go against the voter majorities by legislating from the bench. I say we don't pay another red cent in taxes, any taxes, not one cent and if you want them "come and take It"!!!
People, don't get all hung up on whether or not secession is LEGAL, no state is going to file a request to secede at the local court house. It will be less a matter of legality than a matter of balls. Other countries do it with our blessing: Serbia, Kosovo, et al. Rather than the approval of our present government it would be better to seek that of the U.N. (as sick as that sounds.)
No. I doubt it. And if I say it, and he tries to shut me up, he can wait untill Texas becomes its own country and do away with that pesky freedom of speech. These secessionists are just whining because they didn't just lose the election...they got their fucking asses handed to them in record numbers, now they're pissed and they want to take their ball and go home and secede. I've been on the losing side before though. The left was pissed in 2000 was Gore lost, and then again when Kerry lost. We bitched and protested, but we didn't threaten to secede. Thats unAmerican. If these secessionists hate America so much, there's the door. They're party hasn't done anything for me except run up a deficit, start 2 wars, ignore global warming, and halt a decade of medical advancement. So to answer you, if a big Texican told me he wanted to secede, I'd tell him to get packing. If he hates my country, I don't want his ass here anyway.
well Imagine I hope a long tall Texican runs into you and you tell HIM that !!! But I bet your mouth stays shut then won't it?
What the secessionists in Texas need to learn is that if want us to give a shit that you are threatening secession...don't act like an ignorant tool. And by this I mean, don't protest higher taxes after your taxes just got lowered. And don't threaten to leave a country because you got your asses handed to you by a black muslim communist Kenyan in the last election. Oh, and don't appoint Glenn Beck as your spokesman. As it stands, if all the teabaggers want to go form their own country, I say good riddance.
Texas has ALWAYS considered itself an independent republic.
I soooooooooooooooooooo hope they do secede. Only cuz I wanna see it happen.
the 10 highest donor states are ALL DEMOCRAT STATES, while the ten lowest 8 are reublican states!!! So we liberals should be complaining!!!
i think perry just got caught up in a moment and is worried about his chances at re-election.
As I wrote earlier, Perry isn't calling for secession anyway. He is calling for an enforcement of the 10th amendment and that is long overdue.
a texas congressman and texas professort both said that US SUPREME COURT V WHITE, IT IS ILLEGAL FOR ANY STATE TO LEAVE THE UNION, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THIS BULLSHIT!!!
fuck Perry, he is running out of time and he is cattle calling to all the tinfoil hat crazies. He will not win as Gov, he is already very unpopular with the majority of Texans.
As I wrote earlier, Perry isn't calling for secession anyway. He is calling for an enforcement of the 10th amendment and that is long overdue.
You dopes are wasting your breath with all this nut talk about secession. It ain't gonna happen. Perry is going to lose to an equally worse Bush lover and he is getting the wingnuts all hot and foamy. Lets get back to reality people.
I believe that the ultimate ability of a sate to decide to secced from the Union is at the heart of freedom. We live in a union of states who have CHOSEN to be united in purpose.However to say they can't make a different choice is to become an "empire" as opposed to America
I agree.
Where has this call been for the past few decades? Who knows? But I'm just glad a governor is bringing it up now.
Where was this call under Bush? Thats what I find amusing I am glad he finally woke up on the 10th though.
Perry wasn't calling for secession. He was calling for enforcement of the 10th Amendment. There is a big difference. Asking about secession is the wrong question. The question should be whether or not the federal government should replace the authority of the States on all social policy. That is what is at issue here. The federal mandates on education, welfare, health care, etc. are directly violating the 10th Amendment and federal separation of powers.
Well I bet that if we did more polls across Texas more people would support staying in the Union then not. Perry was pandering for his re-election he tried to force certian shots down parents throats and they did not like he got beat up among conservatives for it. Also add to that how much government money has Perry accepted as Governor? I wonder...... his talk looks hypocrital because he was fine being in the Union when Bush pushed through the massive bailout of 700 billion and then took some banks.
he usually polls about 400 poeple at times. I can tell you, I am sure people think this is a little scary for someone to want secession and not explain why.
Well I don't know how many they polled but I am sure it was alot more then 400 and I would expect that it would be a state wide poll. Rasmussen is one of the most widely respected polls out their.
Rasmussen polls maybe about 400 people- I am sure most were in Dallas
Rob they just conducted a poll in Texas 75% say they would vote to stay in the union.
If people think that Texas will be the only one to secede, they are sadly mistaken. Texas, if they do, will be the first of many to do so.
Libby, you say that - but the colonies had no right nor precedent to leave Great Britain. Yet it happened all the same. The former Soviet Republics that broke free wouldn't have been able to earlier, but when they did and got other nations to support them, what was the mother country going to do? Would the United States go to war over Texas? Would it do so if Texas were supported by the U.N. and the armies of several powerful nuclear nations? Your dusty documents from 1866 have no more weight than my dusty documents from 1789 through the 1850s. In the modern era, the question would be decided based on one criterion: Would we fight a major war with foreign nations over Texas? I think the answer is "No".
Mdummy that kind of talk is sedition and you are crossing the line, you should be very careful about that bullshit. what the fuck is wrong with you? Was not 600000 dead enough? You fucking wacko!!!
75% of Texans don't want to leave the union guys.
They have an economy larger than most nations and if they formed quick alliances with friendly nations, they would have no fear for their safety - although their own national guard is larger than many nation's armies.
no it cannot Mdummy, after the civil war, Texas has no right to leave the union, the best it could do would be to split into 5 states, which congress would clrealy not seat any new senators! So your pissing and moaning for nothing. You are wasting time Mdummy about something you know cannot happen.
They probably could leave the union. I just think they would be fucked if they did.
Seems like Texas is not going anywhere. lol
I know it can legally leave the union, but I doubt that it will.
In Texas, 31% Say State Has Right to Secede From U.S., But 75% Opt To Stay
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/pol
itics/states_general/texas/in_texas_31_say_state_h
as_right_to_secede_from_u_s_but_75_opt_to_stay
So you want to waste time pissing and moaning like an impotent jerk, knowing damn well Texas cannot legally leave the union?
Instead of being angry about Obama and threatening secession so Texas can have their own redneck government, shouldn't they be worried about practical things? For example, who will trade with us? Will our small size make us an easy target for foreign attack? What changes will need to be made within our government? How will we specificly take on the role of the feds? Will we need create, eliminate and add new policies in order to maintain Texas as a nation? ...They can't just wake up one day and declare that they are their own country even in the rest of America gave them permission off the bat.
As I wrote in my original comments. I think this secession stuff has as much validity as the Hollywood elite threatening to move to Canada in 2004. That I believe it will not happen does not negate the right of it to be done.
While you want to cite documents from the ONLY six year time in U.S. history when secession was considered illegal and ignore all the evidence before that time and after it when the United States not only used secession for its creation, but also supported (sometimes with military force) the right of secession elsewhere in the world is to blind yourself in the propaganda of one radical party at one era. John Q. Adams (whom I cited) was a staunch Unionist and even he agreed with his arch political foes in the Democratic Party that secession was a right. Those remarks were made at the time when the admission of Texas into the Union was being debated and the NE was threatening to secede if it were. It has great relevance to the topic at hand both as evidence of the universally accepted antebellum position that secession was legal and because it refers particularly to the issue of Texas. If you want a war of research and material, prepare for a barrage as I can produce mountains of evidence before and after the Civil War that show secession was and is recognized by the United States as a right of a free people.
I'm just in awe that people want to secede after 3 months of being out of power. You're a smart guy, Mduminiak. You know that it is a small minority of people tea bagging and threatening secession. Glenn Beck just tries to make it look like half of the country.
"Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever government becomes destructive to life, liberty, or property [i.e., the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it... It is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."-American Declaration of Independence--- that overrules any law or proclamation
William Rawles, appointed the first U.S. Attorney in the circuit in Pennsylvania by President Washington and instrumental in prosecuting those involved in the first attempt at secession (The Whiskey Rebellion) was the authority on the issue at the time when the Constitutional Republic was formed and maintained. He wrote on the subject of secession after participating in putting down the Whiskey Rebellion and makes clear the case when secession is or is not legal. http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_32.htm
The Republicans are out of power for 3 months, and they want to secede already. Secession from this country. Now, THAT'S unAmerican. It doesn't really bother me though because if all the far right wing hicks decided to secede, I wouldn't be sad to see them go.
John fucking adams? Are you serious? Presidential Proclamation Declaring a State of Peace Between Texas and the United States
August 20, 1866 states...now pay attention Mdummy, check your glasses and lay oen the crack pipe.....
"NO State, of its own will, has a right or power to go out of or separate itself from, or be separated from the American Union; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States" why do you continue to bring up people that died long after the Civil War. None of that shit is relevent!! Get a grip you jackass!!
"The indissoluble link of union between the people of the several states of this confederated nation is, after all, not in the right but in the heart. If the day should ever come (may Heaven avert it!) when the affections of the people of these States shall be alienated from each other; when the fraternal spirit shall give way to cold indifference, or collision of interests shall fester into hatred, the bands of political associations will not long hold together parties no longer attracted by the magnetism of conciliated interests and kindly sympathies; and far better will it be for the people of the disunited states to part in friendship from each other, than to be held together by constraint." - Former President John Q. Adams
it called facts, perhaps you should try those once in a while Mdummy, I know reality is tough, but you really need to stop smoking crack or pcp or cock, or whatever it is that is blocking your brain!
you to RD, go read you fucking wack jobs! You idiots are an embrassment to republicans with all this talk! Please keep going because if this what you think average americans want to hear, the closest your party will get to the white house is by cleaning the toilets!
So what?
Oh and Mdummy that passage I posted came from the TEXAS STATE LIBRARY AND ARCHIVES COMMISSION!!!!
http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/exhibits/annexation/par
t5/question11.html
if you dont wanna here it anymore...ask Odumbo to change the constitution...which he will anyways...you cant ignore facts libtard
That's what they said before Gorbachev...
all this talk of secession is total bullshit and if anyone thinks otherwise should one, read the law and 2nd take better meds, because it is delusional.
While it said "THAT NO STATE, OF ITS OWN WILL, HAS A RIGHT OR POWER TO GO OUT OF OR SEPARATE ITSELF FROM, OR BE SEPARATED FROM THE AMERICAN UNION", that didn't stop the government from separating them from the Union for a decade of Reconstruction in which States were denied self-government, representation in the U.S. government and were not regarded as States within the Union.
That, Libby, is one of the main differences between liberals and conservatives. I believe in states right to secession if it is in their constitution. Liberals believe in laws and proclamation holding states together. When it clearly states in our own constitution the rights of states, when they feel tyranny is present, whenever government becomes destructive to life, liberty, or property- they have the right to abolish that government or proclamation or law. You cannot ignore the constitution Libby. I believe you are more worried for Obama politically than looking at our constitution and what it says a STATE has the right to do.
RD you really need some better meds, you have gone completely off the reservation!!! The Presidential Proclamation declaring peace between the United States and Texas after the Civil War, dated August 20, 1866, states very clearly in the following passage that no state had the right to leave the Union.............And whereas,
the President of the United States, by further proclamation issued on the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, did promulgate and declare, that there no longer existed any armed resistance of misguided citizens, or others, to the authority of the United States in any, or in all the States before mentioned, excepting only the State of Texas, and did further promulgate and declare that the laws could be sustained and enforced in the several States before mentioned, except Texas, by the proper civil authorities, State, or Federal, and that the people of the said States, except Texas, are well and loyally disposed, and have conformed or will conform in their legislation to the condition of affairs growing out of the amendment to the Constitution of the United States, prohibiting slavery within the limits and jurisdiction of the United States..............
And did further declare in the same proclamation THAT IT IS THE MANIFEST DETERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT NO STATE, OF ITS OWN WILL, HAS A RIGHT OR POWER TO GO OUT OF OR SEPARATE ITSELF FROM, OR BE SEPARATED FROM THE AMERICAN UNION; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States........
On March 30, 1870, Congress passed the Act to admit the State of Texas to Representation in the Congress of the United States. Likewise, this act contains no language that would allow Texas to unilaterally withdraw from the United States.
Libby, read "A View of the Constitution" by Rawle. It was the textbook used by West Point before and during the Civil War. It clearly explains the legality of secession.
"Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever government becomes destructive to life, liberty, or property [i.e., the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it... It is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."-American Declaration of Independence---this is crystal clear...I also dont see anywhere, that the civil war changed a state constitution in 1876, after the civil war their constitution said this- "All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."
mdummy you have no idea what your talking about, so when you come back to reality, then we can have a normal discussion, but you know damn well this will not and legally cannot happen. Once Texas had agreed to join the Union, it never had the legal option of leaving, either before or after the Civil War.
Secession is no less legal because it was prevent by force of arms. Might does not make right. Secession formed this nation. Secession changed this nation from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Secession was alive and well and supported by the United States then and in recent times in the secession of former Soviet Republics and former Yugoslavian territories. That the United States, to serve its own interests, opposed secession 1 time, cannot negate all the precedent before and after that sets it as a right of the people.
oops 1860 to 1865 sorry! either way, your wrong RD.
1776 umm you've forgot about the cilvil war RD 1876, so that is no longer valid. Come dude stop being stupid. Texas could be drawn and quartered to become 5 total states within the Union. But Texas as a state, nor any of those subdivided states may secede from the Union period! Damn you Conservatives live a fantasy world!
"Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever government becomes destructive to life, liberty, or property [i.e., the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it... It is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."-American Declaration of Independence (1776)
However, it does state (in Article 1, Section 1) that "Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States..." (note that it does not state "...subject to the President of the United States..." or "...subject to the Congress of the United States..." or "...subject to the collective will of one or more of the other States...")
Neither the Texas Constitution, nor the Constitution of the united States, explicitly or implicitly disallows the secession of Texas (or any other "free and independent State") from the United States. Joining the "Union" was ever and always voluntary, rendering voluntary withdrawal an equally lawful and viable option (regardless of what any self-appointed academic, media, or government "experts"—including Abraham Lincoln himself—may have ever said).
Both the original (1836) and the current (1876) Texas Constitutions also state that "All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."
Likewise, each of the united States is "united" with the others explicitly on the principle that "governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed" and "whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends [i.e., protecting life, liberty, and property], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government" and "when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
moreover, between the Texas Constitution, the U.S. Constitution and the Joint Resolution Annexing Texas to the United States of 1845, there is no explicit right for the state to return to its days as a Republic, said Sanford Levinson, a professor at the School of Law at University of Texas-Austin.....
"We actually fought a war over this issue, and there is no possibility whatsoever that the United States or any court would recognize a "right" to secede," Levinson wrote in an e-mail.....so stop already with the insane nut talk!
Hey you shit-4-brains wingnuts, THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION DOES NOT ALLOW TEXAS TO SECEDE!!! SO STOP WITH ALL THIS NUT TALK!!! Again I have to ask, is it any wonder why republicans are such a joke?
Why Eric, I think you could make a great Conservative Constitutionalist. You should let us have our party.
Here's my thoughts: Bush's eight years was like a frat party for the Republicans... and after 9/11, he had largely unchecked power. Now the party is over, and there's a hell of a mess to clean up... and like with the aftermath of any party, there are no volunteers from those who made the mess. And now, people are even threatening to leave the fraternity just because things aren't going their way. Can we say, "sore losers?" Amusing however to think that many of these are probably the same people who accused liberals of hating the US.
Oh god, please, please let Texas secede from the union!
Bush didn't ruin squat libby......he didn't have states wanting to secced under his admin. That would be his majesty king Obama
and Bush still ruined America and you cockclowns voted for him twice only to piss and moan because he wasn't the second coming of conservatism!!!
Perry was re-elected in a three-way race with only 39% of the popular vote in 2010. He is not very popular at all here. So, I would be totally surprised if he is re-elected.
The Supreme Court ruled in Bush v. Gore, but that never stopped you or your ilk from crying about it constantly and saying the election was stolen. So, get off your high horse.
the supreme court RULED dipshit, can you not read? The constitution also said all men are created equal, yet it took a hundred or so years plus the Federal government to get the south to treat all men equal, so fuck leaving issues like that to the states!!
yeah, yeah, Libby. The Supreme Court also ruled back in the day in that segregation was legal under the 14th amendment. The Supreme Court has become the least reliable source of Constitutional interpretation as it has reversed itself on pretty much every issue at least once.
1)Where in the Constitution does it say a state can't leave the union? 2)If the federal government does not uphold the Constitution, states have the right to secede based on "breach of contract."
You clowns need to read up on your Supreme Court rulings!! Texas came into the union with the ability to divide into five states, not withdraw. After seceding during the Civil War, Texas was allowed to re-enter the union after ratifying the 13th Amendment. The 13th Amendment banned slavery in the United States and any territory subject to its jurisdiction. Texas v White, a U.S. Supreme Court case decided in 1869, said Texas cannot secede. So quit the all the bullshit babbling about this nonsense!
While I hate to see the US break up, I support texas state rights!!!
I lived in Texas for 12 years (Dallas area), I loved it.
I'd seriously consider moving there myself. I love my country, but I love liberty more.
If they do I will move back to Texas!!!!!!!
But you do not support secession?
As a Texan ... I completely support succeeding from the union.
George W. Bush said, "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists." The right went along with the "thou shalt not question thy government" commandment for 8 years of out of control spending. The new guy gets in an 87 days later they threaten to secede. Fuck them. If they want to secede, let them.
In MT in february we had a session over exactly that. The vote was 51% for soverignty /secession.
According to our state constitution it takes a 2/3 rds majority. However if Texas did it I'd bet That a majority of western states would as well. It's not north south this time it's east/ west. We in the west are tired of the east dictating laws that may well make sense in those tiny overpopulated states, but not here........... the dividing line is growing. The MO. reports and the DHS reports are actualy causing this division, more than any other single issue
Well I think Perry's decision over certain shots making them manadorty could come back to haunt him with social conservatives. And I wonder if he is going to request that all members of the Texas delegation not accept pork barrel projects. What other federal aid is he not going to accept? College money as well?
I may have confused the 2...but the fact is he is on pace to reach Bush's job approval numbers later on this year.
GO TEXAS!!!
The latest Ipsos poll has him at 63%. CNN and CBS have him at 66%. Gallup's daily tracking poll has him at 63% today. I'm not sure where you're getting 80%, unless you're confusing that with favorability polls, but his earliest job approvals were in the mid-60s.
but Obama's approval numbers have dropped to near 80% down to the 50's in a matter of months.
Personally, I believe that even if the undeniable differences are as irreconcilable as the author states, secession by Texas alone is unlikely. Even if it gets to a point where a majority of Texans are inclined in that direction, as the campaign for secession unfolds and the reality of the sovereign nation of Texas sets in, I believe such a move would fall short. People will think twice about sovereignty and about the international respect that they would be accorded even by their neighboring nations. As the moment of truth approached, I think a significant portion of people will back away from the thought of being their own state-nation. Now a more likely scenario that I can see developing is a repeat of history. If the states of the old South were to reach the point that Texas has and together, a significant portion of unified southern states decided to seek sovereignty, together as a new nation, then I think the Rubicon will have been crossed and the need for God to bless America as we know it will be greater than ever.
I would be more willing to believe that was even remotely possible if Obama didn't continue to have net-positive approval ratings in practically every state in the country. (I think Utah was a lone exception)
how do you think Bush got elected...what about Obama...Texas is a very conservative state...I believe this act as Gov. will propel him to the winner seat again. This is what people want to hear right now. Someone standing up against the federal gov't
Perry is going to lose the primary he has made alot of mistakes as Governor. Its political pandering to the base.
I dont know what his real intentions are...but you also have to see, that a call to secession is a serious thing. It isnt something done lightly and to save a election. I hope this is real and that Mr Odumbo wakes up and finally sees that his way is the wrong way. If Texas secedes, so will Mississippi, so will Georgia, so will South Carolina, so will Tennessee, so will Arkansas, so will Oklahoma...so on and so forth.
I'm so glad to see what anyone who pays attention to Texas politics would see as a pathetic attempt by the governor to cling to office and survive a primary challenge is some legitimate call for secession.
erock- wake up and smell the socialism...this republic has been broken up a long time...you cannot shove government down peoples throats and expect them to swallow. I applaud Gov. Perry and I hope other states join in- this is the ultimate teabagging.
I do, but I also believe in a state's constitution and they legally have the rights to secede if they choose to.
I hope the republic does not split up.
So you don't believe in a strict interpretation of the constitution, Rob?
I agree. I think Texas has the right to secede and I believe if they do- this will cause many other conservative minded states to do so also. I hope it all happens under Obama's watch...this will be a good thing.
Well unfunded mandates are something you and I Rob agree on. They just place more taxes on people at the state level.
The sad thing is they might be better off to do so. All of these unfunded mandates are sure to drive them crazy
Well time will tell. The thing is I really wonder how many Texans really want to leave the union. That would be an interesting poll number to see.
I hope it happens.
I do think this is alot of hot air. No more then liberals talking about leaving the US.Perry is in a tight election for Governor and might lose he is pandering.
EROCK if you think it's a lot of hot air consider the fact that I personally don't know anyone who would object to New England states or Wisconsin leaving the union. In fact it would be a step in the right direction for this country. Please ask them to take New York, California, Washington and Oregon with them when they go for starters.
Robot zombies are real. If you need any proof, just look at Al Gore dance.
Did I not make it obvious enough that I was just kidding when I mentioned robot zombies? Those don't exist... yet. *goes back to his lab*
If any state gets overran...I am sure it will not be Texas...they can finally fix that immigration problem now.
and all that nasty evil carbon polluting oil as well!
i say let them go.....but make sure they take all of their professional sports teams with them...
Brinmat thats funny but I doubt Texas would be over run.
Texas will be quickly overrun by pirates, ninjas, and robot zombies, and then they'll beg to come back into the union.
Secession is a step in the right direction. I would have respected Perry more if he thought of seceding when Bush was president. Texas. It's like a whole other country.
Well I think you missed the point Brinmat was making. Its alot of hot air.
You should apologize to the people of Texas, comparing them to New England states or Wisconsin is an insult to say the least.
It's not different than suggesting New England states or other blue border states (like my home state of Wisconsin) secede to Canada after Bush was re-elected. It's bluster. It isn't going to happen, but people like to talk big.
lol Brinmat I agree with that. Plus I think people really are clueless as to how bloody and messy a civil war would be. Plus how many different ideas their are on what should happen in post civil war phase. This is just silly talk.
Considering that Barack Obama has a net positive approval rating in ALABAMA, I doubt a civil war is coming anytime soon.
I agree, the divide between the Right and Left has become too great and can never be reconciled.
The time has come to begin the process of dividing the U.S. into two distinct countries, one for Conservatives and one for Liberals.
The Liberals will then be free to implement all the socialist programs they would like, provided they can afford them, and the conservatives can live in a nation of personal accountability and responsibility.
Better that we part ways amicably than wind up in a civil war.
Yea she can win the whole state.
Perry is extremely unpopular in his own party. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is running against him in primary.
Perry might after all look who he is running against. But seriously all this talk of spliting up the union is well far fetched. I really do think the right needs to chill out for a few minutes.
Oh for Pete's sake... Perry is appealing to the right-wing in Texas so he can survive his primary. Texas isn't going to secede, and I doubt Perry will survive as governor.
While I do not believe that secession was the immediate intent of Gov. Perry, the steps taken may give power to those who favor it. Texas is a unique case. While secession is the basis of the United States (secession from Great Britain, secession from the government under the Articles of Confederation), we did fight a war to overturn all the principles of government upon which our Revolution was based. At the muzzle of a rifle, we denied that people have the right to alter or form a new government when the government under which they live becomes destructive of their private rights. In 1861, the United States adopted the philosophy of George III saying that an existing government trumps the will of the people to a government of their own choosing. After four years of bloody warfare, the contest was decided and government by the consent of the governed ceased to exist replaced by government over the people, by the strong and for itself. The principles of the Revolution - that people have a right to a government of their own choosing - were thrown onto the ash heap of history. But as I said, Texas is unique. Where the principle of secession was 'understood' by the Framers and considered part of the 10th Amendment, it was not explicitly stated and therefore, like so many other rights that have been taken away for their failure to be specifically stated, it was denied. The nation of Texas however joined the Union with the express written right to leave it again if it so desired. Back 150 years ago there were only Britain and France to seek aid from. Today if Texas were to attempt to exercise its reserved right to secede, it could call on the U.N. to recognize that fact and on aid and recognition from the plethora of nations with an axe to grind with the United States. Stopping secession would be much harder to do than it was 150 years ago. I have my doubts that we will ever find out. Secession is a huge step that would not be taken lightly and without a massive governmental blunder to spark it, I doubt the people of this era have the stomach for such radicalism. People talk about secession the same way the Hollywood elite talked about going to Canada in 2004. I suspect the result will also be the same. But if the day did come when Texas or some other State declared its independence, I would gladly go to arms to fight on their behalf.
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